God exists. We lose. Good bye.


Snippets from an MSN conversation between me and Dakota Spann, the logical badass.  We were discussing ‘morality’.  His screen name is Freedo, and I’m 苦力 which is “Cooley” in Chinese.

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苦力 says: morality doesnt exist , just the concept ?
Freedo says: morality does exist
苦力 says: what is it ?
Freedo says: rationality

Freedo says: think of it like this: I have a vase. The vase has a color ok?
苦力 says: yea lol
Freedo says: what color is it?
苦力 says: i see… ok i got it … but that argument is going to get a severe “God-did-it” … GOD PUT THE COLOUR THERE FOR YOU TO SEE ahaha
Freedo says: it has a color and that color is true morality but you only have concept of what it is since you don;t know
苦力 says: i dont even think tehre could be a true morality
Freedo says: it depends on your definition

God-given morality

苦力 says: i am not convinced that there is any reason to believe that there is such a thing as “morality”. all we have is this “concept of morality”, which we call “morality” …
Freedo says: like I said, it dpends on definition if you take my definition than it does

Freedo says: facts exist but we don’t know what they are with certainty except for just two things … there is only two thing we know with certainty
苦力 says: its  called observed facts
Freedo says: that I exist and that existence exists
苦力 says: i think they are considered facts
Freedo says: no. stop typing while I type
苦力 says: basterd. lol

Freedo says: Observable facts are based off of perception but we don’t know with certainty that what we’re perciieving is true. you only know that you exist and that existence exists. observable facts are only our best guesses. I think it is neccesary to trust them. but we still don’t know

Freedo says: I’m talking of objectivity … not subjjective logic
苦力 says: rationality is objective yes?
Freedo says: that;s the kind I’m speaking of, yes
苦力 says: ur too smart for a 15 year old. go back to school.

苦力 says: wait… so u define morality as rationality … in the objective sense … WTFFFFF LOL
Freedo says: yep hahaha
苦力 says: but if i argue objective morality doesnt exist then im using a different definition of morality already. fuck.
Freedo says: rather than seeing if morality in a traditional sense actually exists outside the human mind I simply change the definition to make it so it was no matter what … it’s called semantics


Godless morality

苦力 says: what if X = morality and X is within rationality … x =/= rationality but x is subset of rationality. semantic issue again. is Poodle not a dog? lol so u could argue that morality is rationality because poodle is a dog … but rationality is not morality … because dog isnt a poodle.
Freedo says: I don’t think it’s like that. you may be ABLE to change the definition because definitions are subjective but you can;t change fact
苦力 says: providing that the FACT even exists… we could have formed a concept out of nothing.
Freedo says: Objectivity exists
苦力 says: i have a concept of god . doesnt mean god exists.
Freedo says: right
苦力 says: i have a concept of morality doesnt mean morality exists.
Freedo says: no, it means it doesn’t exist like you see it. If I define morality as objective that it by definition exist. I define morality as existing

Freedo says: I define morality as existence which means it exists by my defnition. If my defnition of God is existence that means God exists by my definition.
苦力 says: why the fack did u define morality as existence ?
Freedo says: it simply means 1=1 … because rationality is an extension of objectivity.
苦力 says: Holy shit you’re smart.
Freedo says: goddamnit, brb. I forgot to turn out the lights at 12 now mom knows I stayed up long than I’m supposed to

Freedo says: your definiton of morality is concept of morality, purely subjective.
苦力 says: which is stupid… morality means concept of morality. recursive…
Freedo says: yep, that’s why I don’t pick that. Morality = Doing the “right” thing; Rationality = Doing the “smart” thing. see?

苦力 says: how is rationality objective. sorry. lol
Freedo says: if A is an objective entity. than A=A is a rational statement
苦力 says: in your subjective ideas. A =/= A in my opinion ahahahaha
Freedo says: in subjectvity that possible but not objectivity. in objectivity a thing is always itself
苦力 says: hmmm true. LOL win. DUDE UR MADE OF WIN
Freedo says: thank you

Freedo says: answer this … what do you know?
苦力 says: i exist and existenec exists lol
Freedo says: haha … yes, but yur just copying me
苦力 says: i know im handsome.

Freedo says: I exist and existence exists BUT then there’s more besides the two knowables there is also the great assumption… the great assumption is that there is logic. you don’t need logic to figure out you exist and existence exists that is self-evident. but 1+1=2 is logical … however you don’t know if anything realy operates upon logc
苦力 says: how do u overcome that ?
Freedo says: it’s the great assumption. it is simply neccesary to assume it is a logical world
苦力 says: all our observations have been logical … otherwise logic wouldnt exist … erm … wait… lol
Freedo says: haha
苦力 says: confusing
Freedo says: then there is more … the first extensions of the two knowables … you exist > your consciousness is truth to you your feelings are of your highest importance to yourself.

苦力 says: i have a hypothesis. everytime we sleep. we reincarnate to a different univserse … and assume a different identity … then when u sleep there u wake up here without remembering anything ahahahaha
Freedo says: I have a hypothesis. everything just began right now.
苦力 says: yep
Freedo says: memory is an illusion
苦力 says: hahahahaha … therefore god exists. we lose. good bye.

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